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wtf... are you kidding me?


By 1elephant - Posted on 30 June 2008

This is silly.  If you are really a Republican you can not be serious about Obama.  This guy takes everything he says out of the Communist Manifesto.  Have you read it?  I suggest you do.  I don't think McCain is the best deal, but if you REALLY are a Republican you cannot think Obama is the best for America.  He is so socialistic at best, but really Communistic.  Who ever thinks this is a TRUE Republican idealogy does not know politics nor a true Republican.  Read history, Republican believe in limited self government not BIG government.  The originator of this site has no concept of history or politics.  I suggest you look into history before you make any decision.  Sounds like a good money making scam for you to buy stuff from here.  I doubt they will allow this to be posted since it is contrary to there position. 

Hmm-ask Bush about BIG government and spending. We have all done our research and I suggest you do some independent research (and don't just depend upon Fox news or Rush Limbaugh.) Obama will be an excellent president. He has the intelligence, leadership, and judgement to get us back on track. As someone who voted for Bush twice, i have learned my lesson-finally!

Amen Izzy! You go girl.  I guess this guy has not looked at the Grand Old Party Platform of 1896 either.  I do not think he would recognize his party after reading that piece of history.  Furthermore, he needs to read Randall Leverette's article, Tale of a Wayward Republican.  Enough said.

God Bless you all,

MaggieCat, All time fan of the RFO!

 

I don't know why I bother responding to such posts given that such arguments have no basis in reality and I believe in most cases are just driven by trolls who really are not interested at all to find out why the RFO site exists. I guess I cannot remain silent while trolls spout worn out talking points without ever making a cognizant argument for supporting McCain other than Obama is scary, or a communist, or socialist, or uppity, elitist, liberal, etc....... I have heard them all 1elephant so do not waste your breath on me.

Here is a novel idea. How about you take the time to make one intelligent argument for blindly following the Republican Party after what has transpired the past 8 years. I am more than happy to have this debate with you because

 "Read history, Republican believe in limited self government not Big government." Just isn't getting it done.

You made it too easy on me 1elephant because this argument holds no water what so ever. I keep waiting for this so called "limited self government" to show up under a Republican Administration. I have looked at history and what Republican stands for is Cut Taxes, Spend Money, Run up huge debts, suspend Habeas Corpus, illegal wire-traps, invading sovereign nations, and torture. You really need to take the time to compare your Ideological Dream vs. Reality. The Republican Party may say they want smaller government but in reality that is just another political lie to get your vote. If they really believed that then Ron Paul would be the party's nominee because John McCain means business as usual.

Good luck to you 1elephant, though I doubt you will be back to read any of these posts. I would be pleasantly surprised if you did.

Awesome! You're the latest in a long line of posters to begin his first comment with the brilliant rhetorical acronym WTF. We even had a poster named WTFisthisBS. Perhaps you know him?

If a McCain supporter stops by without bothering to read any of our arguments, it's easy to assume that this group was established by young underinformed kool-aid drinkers. But the truth is, the leadership is a small group of well-educated Republicans who are in fact fully aware of the core elements of the traditional Republican party.

Further, I have yet to find a single one of our members that is under the age of thirty, so it's hard to make the "you're just a bunch of kool-aid drinking college kids" argument against us.

We each have our own arguments for Obama. For me, the core of the traditional Republican platform is fiscal responsibility. Right now our only options are tax-and-spend Democrats and spend-and-spend Republicans. Obviously, if those are the only two options, the Democrats are the more fiscally responsible of the two groups (hard though that may be to fathom).

We at RFO remain hopeful that eventually our party will return to its roots. In the meantime, we're supporting Senator Obama for the presidency.

Thank you for your post, Mr. Elephant.

 

Barbara,

lead blogger.

RFO

1elephant is probably still shaken from his experiences in his home country. I'm guessing that at some point the socialists had real power there and were worth being afraid of.

The fact that Obama is the son of an immigrant should make you proud. Isn't it nice to think that one of your children may also grow up to be president? This couldn't possibly happen in whatever socialist dictatorship you came here from.

John, you are too funny.

 "Read history, Republican believe in limited self government not BIG government."

The history of the last 7 years speaks for itself. Going back further than that is irrelevant as that represents what republicans used to believe.

"The originator of this site has no concept of history or politics.  I suggest you look into history before you make any decision.  Sounds like a good money making scam for you to buy stuff from here. "

I suggest you look at the last 7 years and then I dare you to explain how the republicans have worked for limited government during those 7 years. They didn't.

As for money making scam, do you rank and files think about anything before it comes out of your mouth? How are they going to make money unless there really are republicans for Obama? Ooops.  

Money making scam:  I think it's not hard to tell that there is no advertising on this site.  That was a conscious decision that we made way back in the beginning.  We have forfeited a potentially large amount of money that we all could be using right now to buy cigars and scotch for ourselves.  Instead, we chose to keep this a non-profit organization, in part to try to reduce the number of things people like elephant1 have to complain about.

The items we sell through our CafePress store don't come anywhere close to being able to pay for the maintenance of the site and our other costs.  In fact, our reason for creating the CafePress store was to let people who wanted RFO stuff an easy way to get it.  As Benjamin points out, obviously people want to show their support if there's a market for it.  That's the way things work here in a capitalist society, Mr. Elephant.  If you'd like to see the globs and globs of profit we're getting from this CafePress racket we're running, I'd be more than happy to show you.  I'm serious.

It's really amazing how a certain segment of the population immediately goes with their knee-jerk reaction, instead of actually trying to understand the other side.  People like elephant1 make me incredibly appreciative of the sort of people we have in this organization.

I doubt they will allow this to be posted since it is contrary to there position. 

 

Why do our detractors always end with something like this? Do they really think we're afraid of them? The mentalitiy is almost hubristic in its egocentrism. Or perhaps some of them just get kicked off of a lot of sites.

That's easy Barbara... They see in others what is in themselves. If you go to any rank and file board out there, your posts criticizing the party line will not stand. They won't have it and they won't tolerate it and they assume everyone else is just like them.

"It's really amazing how a certain segment of the population immediately goes with their knee-jerk reaction, instead of actually trying to understand the other side.  People like elephant1 make me incredibly appreciative of the sort of people we have in this organization."

I shouldn't be surprised anymore, but I still am, at the fact that a supposed freemarket republican like elephant1 would try to fault someone for making money in what would be an honest business venture were you guys to pursue it. A scam is when you don't deliver what you promise. How would this be a scam? Answer: It wouldn't be at all. 

Maybe he has a sense of entitlement and thinks you should be giving out shirts for free the way McCain likes free taxpayer dollars to fund his campaign?

Don't speak too soon; I'm a selfish, pig. Forget the scotch and cigars...I need my golf club membership dues paid and I need a new driver and a down payment on a golf cart of my very own. I can't wait for Obama to be elected so all the golf courses are nationalized and fees reduced so we ALL can play for free and then I can go wait in line for healthcare when I get smacked with a golf ball. 

^^^^^^^
Golf11, NYC
Vero Possumus

 

 

To call oneself a Republican for Obama can only be described as intellectually dishonest. When a voter allies him or her self with a political party, they are forming an association with other like-minded individuals who share a basic ideology that is already in place and has evolved over many years. Our political party system exists to unite those with similar beliefs so that they might form a coalition from which to elect candidates who share their basic ideology. While I will acknowledge that there are degrees of adherence to overall party ideology within each party, it is a party members belief in the BASIC, established party philosophy that makes one a Republican or Democrat, not merely the semantics of using the party's identification. The individual voter does not get to determine what a Republican or Democrat is or is not, he or she only gets to decide whether they agree with enough of the party's ideological agenda to belong...or not. In this particular case, Senator Obama is the antithesis of a Republican. He is, in fact, one of the most liberal members of the opposing Democratic party voting with his liberal colleagues 96.4% of the time and associating himself with the far left on virtually every major issue. His socialist agenda puts him at odds with virtually everything that Republicans stand for in terms of both fiscal and social policy. I therefore submit that if you support Senator Obama and thus the beliefs and agenda that he represents, you ARE NOT and CANNOT be a Republican. Calling yourself such makes you a living, breathing oxymoron. Your support for such a disparate viewpoint renders your calling yourself a Republican worthless and meaningless. What's more, why would you want to identify yourself as a member of something with which you haven't a single common goal? Hmmm, maybe it's because when you say that you're a Republican who supports Obama, you give the illusion that the Senator has support from a group he does not in the hope that it might persuade, at the margin, a few independents to vote for the Senator. After all, if these "Republicans" are voting for him, he can't be all that bad. At any rate if you support Senator Obama you are or have become a Democrat and there’s no shame in that, just don’t try to pass yourself off as something you are not in order to make it seem that Republicans are defecting to Obama. I assure you real Republicans are not!

That's it, I'm dropping out of MENSA; my intellect is dwarfed by this comment.

^^^^^^^
Golf11, NYC
Vero Possumus

 

 

Don't go....I'll miss you. ;-)

true. Over the last eighteen months we have had some truly condescending, self-righteous, and presumptive posts, but yours puts them all to shame. I don't even know where to start. You clearly haven't bothered to read anything on this site or to find out that we

1. Do in fact know what the Republican Party stands for

2. Can and have in fact construct[ed] arguments defending him using traditional Republican principles.

I am truly sorry that someone of your apparent intelligence is unable to allow others to posit thoughts contrary to your own. I would pursue a discussion with you but I find your tone insulting and unacceptable.

Perhaps someday I'll ask you to explain how John RINO McCain qualifies as a Republican.

Did you notice the difference in tone and syntax between the first half of the post and the second?

"The individual voter does not get to determine what a Republican or Democrat is or is not, he or she only gets to decide whether they agree with enough of the party's ideological agenda to belong...or not."

I think this sums it up right here what's wrong with the rank and file of the party. This new brand of republican, as made clear by this guy's post, honestly believes one either believes one way or the other. It's a cult now, a religion, that overrides the individual's free thought. They perceive a black and white world where everyone with functioning eyesight sees a world full of color. They see it as their job in this democratic republic to be an unthinking drone who lines up and shuts up behind one of two choices.

 "In this particular case, Senator Obama is the antithesis of a Republican. He is, in fact, one of the most liberal members of the opposing Democratic party voting with his liberal colleagues 96.4% of the time and associating himself with the far left on virtually every major issue."

No he's not and you have no evidence to demonstrate this because it's not true. He has been out of sync with the far left for the longest time on the death penalty. He has been out of sync with the far left on fiscal policy. In fact, go around the net to far left sites and you're going to find true leftists, people truly on the far left, dissatisfied with him because he's not far left.

Then you go on to this retarded refrain we've heard repeatedly from unthinking rank and files like you:

"His socialist agenda puts him at odds with virtually everything that Republicans stand for in terms of both fiscal and social policy."

Oh please. After the last 7 years, you still believe the republican party stands for non-socialist fiscal policy? What the hell country have you been in for the last 7 years? Did you miss that it was GW and a republican controlled senate that passed the largest expansion of social spending since the new deal in the form of the prescription drug benefit? Were you asleep on that day or something? Have you noticed that our currency has been tanked and we're all having all of our assets taxed as a direct result of debt spending, which is basicly "we spend today, our kids pay tomorrow!" all so we can build up Iraq. Devalue all our assets so we can build Iraq. Wow, what patriotism. What devotion to the USA. 

There is no fiscal conservatism left in the republican mainstream. Show me where it is! Those are just empty words that loyalists like you parrot in an attempt to deceive people or sound smart. But you're not smart, because if you were, you'd look at the last 7 years, and you'd be embarassed for claiming that the republican party doesn't stand for socialism or does stand for fiscal conservatism. That's a total unproveable joke. Prove it if you can. Show us the evidence of what the republicans did that was fiscally conservative during their reign. Explain to us how the medicare drug benefit was anything but a socialist program?

No, we are republicans, we're fed up with the lies that clowns like you just eat up like dogs returning to your vomit. There's no reason to believe republicans aren't socialist. There's no reason to believe the party stands for any type of fiscal responsibility or conservatism. Not after the last 7 years. Just cuz Limbaugh or Coulter tells you it's true, doesn't make it true.  But hey, good luck with shoveling that crap. There's a lot of mentally handicapped people who can vote so that should be your target audience. 

Benji, I was with you 'til the line about handicapped voters. Nice line by line deconstruction, though.

 

Vero armadillo sum.

I said mentally handicapped voters... What can I say, I'm not PC, I wouldn't make a good democrat. 

 I sit corrected.

Vero armadillo sum.

And I assure you real Republicans we are!  Not the neo-con, far right wing agenda spouting Republicans that the GOP has become, but true Republicans, who hold dear the values our party once stood for. 

I consider it very intellectually honest to objectively examine all options, and choose the one that offers a viable course for our nation.  It is intellecutally dishonest to blindly absorb to the core the virulent pablum being fed by todays party leaders, and to consider it your own original thought.  We may well be oxymorons, but at least we have "oxy" to preface it.  As you regurgitate the party line, and dare to judge the validity of others, your tendentious missive causes me to lend very little credence to your words.

In other words, you're a pompous ass!         

Nice. Brief and pithy. Kudos.
Thank you Benjamin.  Pithy, I'm good at.  Brief, well, I'm still working on it.

"Brief, well, I'm still working on it."

You're way ahead of me in the brief department. :D Truth be told I just gave up trying. 

Anyone who posts using WTF always underwhelmes me.  As does KoolAid and opinions with holes so big you could drive a truck through them.

1elephant, thank you for stopping by with your unoriginal comments.

 

true.com First and foremost, I am an American and I will proudly cast my vote for Obama because he has the judgement, intellect, wisdom and leadership to move our nation forward even in times like this when so many of us are struggling. I am a Republican who has voted along my party line consistently-until now. I have good reason to pull the lever for Obama. If you believe what you do, maybe you should be telling Bush to switch to a Democrat due to all his uncontrollable spending (hardly a Republican principle.) The truth is I have researched Obama's positions, listened to interviews/speeches and have read his books and I have NO DOUBT he will be an exceptional president. In studying McCain, I don't have that level of confidence. In fact, I fear he will lead us along the same old path towards little progress. While I am Pro-Life, I don't vote on a single issue. Also, I feel Obama's policies on Poverty and Education will actually lead to a decrease in unwanted pregnancies, so that is certainly my goal. Being Pro-Life I have a real hard time dealing with the many thousands of lives lost in Iraq under the leadership of my Republican president. Last I checked we have a democracy here (although Bush has pushed the Big Brother envelope a bit) so I can actually privately vote for the best candidate, despite my political affiliation. I am not giving up on the future of the Republican Party so my "label" stays in tact for now. But if big changes are not made by the GOP, I will probably become an Independent.
Sometimes I have to wonder at the zealots who come here preaching that no real Republican could be supporting Obama while they support a party that has become Republican in name only. The brand called Republican now rests on rotted and gutted underpinnings and it needs to be rebuilt before it can function as it should. Perhaps they are young people who never knew the real Republican party?

These people are probably RINO hunters, but don't feel bad, the GOP calls John McCain, Rudy Giuliani, Chuck Hagel, and Colin Powell RINO's too.

Yes, We Can!

Arlen Spector, Lincoln Chaffee, Mike Huckabee...

Misty,

 I agree with you with the exception of Colin Powell.  He has come to regret his role in the sale of this war.  He is not despicable to me as McCain and Giuliani.  Colin compared to these two nimnuts is ten times more honorable.

 God Bless,

MaggieCat

 

Hey 1elephant up there: 

Name calling...

Snears & smears...

Innuendo...

Is that the POSITIVE message that appeals to voters?

For many of us, it's our revulsion at the current GOP hate machine that brought us here to seek out whatever semblance of honesty and integrity remains in our party.

It used to be Republicans campaigned on a platform of PEACE, PROSPERITY and PROGRESS.

Not any more.   Now they represent WAR MONGERING, RECORD DEFICITS and a shrinking dollar.

Obama may be more of a lib that I'd prefer, but if he can reverse some of the damage done to this counrty by GWB, then by all means I am a RFO !!!

 

Well said, nightwing.

Vero armadillo sum.

Yes, its me, I’m still lurking about! 1elephant I came to this site a while ago now posting a first message much like yours though without the name calling or anti-Obama rhetoric. I find that doesn’t get you far since it immediately makes the ones you want to talk to “raise their shields” so to speak (Trekker as well as Republican here)

If you take the time to read the posts here you’ll see that the discussions are for the most part thoughtful and respectful. I’ve come to respect many of the regular posters here though I often disagree with their opinions. But even when I disagree I understand what they’re saying and why they say it. I firmly believe that those here want what is best for the country as do I. Heck I’ll even go as far as to say that’s what Obama wants too. We just disagree on how to get there. But without lively, intellectual debate what are you left with?

I’ve made no bones about the fact that I’m thoroughly disgusted at either choice we have for president. Perhaps I come here to find some sort of reason to be hopeful. I visit pro-McCain sites as well probably for the same reason. I WANT to feel good about our next president no matter who it might be but alas I’m still mired in a feeling of angst about the coming Obama/McCain administration. But hey guys….keep posting and I’ll keep reading.

Thank you JimW, I have also learned that we must maintain a healthy respect for other's point of view, whether we agree or not. This is the fruit of a civil society.

Yes, We Can!

I chanced upon this site surfing for other people like me and hit the jackpot. I'm sorry 1elephant didn't have the same epiphany. I started leaning toward Obama when I heard him speak and was actually moved ... I mean MOVED, like I haven't been since Reagan. Then I asked myself Reagan's 1984 question. Remember that one? "Are you better off now than you were four years ago?" I, most emphatically, am NOT.

 Then I read Obama's books and discovered that, for the most part, he thinks like I do. Do I agree with everything? No. He's pro-choice, I'm pro-life. He wants more gun control, I own seven guns and want another one. But the country is in wretched shape and needs bold initiatives, not the timid tweaking suggested by my former party's nominee. (Ohio makes you declare your party to vote in the primary and I very much wanted to vote for Obama.) When the Republicans offer a candidate as bold, charismatic and intelligent as Obama, maybe I'll come back. Until then, I'm going with the guy that inspired in me the audacity to hope.

JimW-I'm just curious about the pro-McCain sites. How would you compare them to this one in terms of tone and message? I should check out a few. I could be way off but I don't see as much passion pouring out for McCain so I would guess much of the content is just Obama-bashing and spreading rumors about him. Or is it more about praising McCain for his views/policies and sticking to the positive? Do they have alot of Pro-Obama visitors and are they polite visitors or nasty in general? You seem pretty open-minded and neutral so I'd love to hear your take simply for curiosity sake. Thanks for sticking around, by the way! I figured you were long gone! I knew you were different and not like the rest of them!

Izzy, the few sites that I visit regularly don’t seem to have the same level of passion that the pro-Obama sites seem t o have. I can’t really blame them though. I mean could you get passionate over Sen. McCain? I know I sure can’t. He seems like a nice guy and is not totally without ideas. But when you compare his charisma factor next to Obama’s he doesn’t hold up. I think many of the Republicans are supporting him because they have no choice. When they look at the beliefs/value systems of McCain & Obama they see McCain as coming closest to their own.

Unfortunately there is a lot of anti-Obama messages being put forth which really serve no purpose and clouds the issue. Now before you all here start feeling smug & good about yourselves, there is a fair share of anti-McCain posts here too so it cuts both ways.

I would have to honestly say that the passion for Obama surpasses that for McCain. …IMO. I would also have to admit that there is more anti-Obama posts on the sites I have visited then anti-McCain posts here….Though as I said, the mudslingers have found their way here too but not nearly as much as democratic sites for Obama. Those sites I would say the mudslinging is about equal maybe even a bit more than the McCain sites. I personally try to avoid even reading anti-“whoever” messages as its usually little more than tired rhetoric and heavily biased talking points from whichever side is posting.

I think many Republicans are in the same boat I am; we are basically conservative and don’t feel McCain represents us, likewise Obama certainly doesn’t either. That doesn’t leave us conservatives much of choice now does it? : (

Hi Jim, glad to see you're still with us. Let's face it, McCain just doesn't inspire passion. He's the GOP candidate, so he is who the die hard Republicans will vote for. I understand that, especially for those that always vote party lines. I think that if you continue to read here, and other places that show their real reasons for supporting Obama so passionately, you will begin to see that he does have something to offer us conservatives. It's different, but it's good.

Anyway, I'm happy to see you again.

Well I think Barack Obama has shown a lot of energy, charisma, class and a true spirit of unity in his campaign thus far. He has Republicans like everyone here to thank for helping him secure the Democratic Party nomination, and if he wins the election, it would be thanks to everyone who believes in his new ideas, including all the Republicans who back him. Certainly nothing wrong at all with crossing over, that is the biggest example of open-mindedness, objectiveness and bipartisanship. John McCain was my initial pick for President in 2000, but I cannot support him now.

 I am new to this site as of today. I found it last year as I was searching for pro-candidacy website from across the aisle for McCain, Romney, Clinton and Obama. I am not a Republican myself, I am a Democrat who initially was a strong supporter of Clinton for the 2008 election, but I always believed in Obama's chances to make history, and here he is awaiting nomination from the Democrats for President. I am a Democrat from the state of Michigan, which is one of the big states, but I often vote for mixed tickets, and in fact it's a good bet I will vote to restore the Republicans to majority status in Congress. I hope to be a welcome addition to Republicans for Obama, and perhaps we can get debating about the similarities and opposing sides of the two parties. The Republican Party has a great and wonderful history in this country and I believe Reagan and Bush Sr. will not be the last great GOP Presidents.

 Barack Obama however needs this victory this November, and I am going to do everything I can to help Obama capture Michigan and 17 electoral votes. I already know one local conservative Republican in my area who has pledged her full support to the Obama campaign. When Republicans Democrats and Independents come together as Americans first, there's nothing impossible. But I hope Republicans for Obama will welcome this Democrat to the site.

Of course we welcome you, MIforObama.  We are all here because we share a common goal...electing Barack Obama to the highest office in the land.  We have a couple of other resident Democrats among us, and they are a part of our team as much as any Republican here.  We even have one brand new Democrat, that switched from Republican so she could caucus for Obama in Iowa.  So welcome aboard, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts and ideas.

:I believe Reagan and Bush Sr. will not be the last great GOP Presidents."

I'm with you on the Reagan part. :)

Welcome.

MIforObama:

Michigan is such an important state this year! I'm thrilled to hear you're working cross party to help Obama pull the state. And of course, we're so happy to have you stop by our little neck of the cyberwoods. Welcome!

 

Just wondering - for those who don't believe RFO is "real" - would they be more comfortable if we were called "Former RFO"? Since he hasn't been elected yet, and we almost all voted for Bush in the past, aren't we still Republicans? Once I help elect Obama I will gladly call myself a FRFO.

 

Kate 

Yeah-- you'd think we didn't have 2 wars going on, a $10 trillion nation debt, $4.50 a gallon gas and a continuously slowing economy.  

I personally don't care what we're called. 

I prefer to call us the best and the brightest. Even if we're not technically, compared to the rank and file dim bulbs, nobody is going to notice. 

What about the ones that voted for Hillary, like my friend from Ohio? Did they get their red card revoked, too? Or just us?

Vero armadillo sum.

I'm a Berkeley Republican closet case, running safe this year because I'm for Obama. Apparently, my views on the countries economic situation and the war, pushed me from elephant to donkey. But, that "fist bump" did scare me a little, until I read what it meant. My bad.

Yes, We Can!

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