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On Book Burnings
From today's NYT, Palin fired a librarian who refused to ban books from the library:
Shortly after becoming mayor, former city officials and Wasilla residents said, Ms. Palin approached the town librarian about the possibility of banning some books, though she never followed through and it was unclear which books or passages were in question.
Ann Kilkenny, a Democrat who said she attended every City Council meeting in Ms. Palin’s first year in office, said Ms. Palin brought up the idea of banning some books at one meeting. “They were somehow morally or socially objectionable to her,” Ms. Kilkenny said.
The librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, pledged to “resist all efforts at censorship,” Ms. Kilkenny recalled. Ms. Palin fired Ms. Emmons shortly after taking office but changed course after residents made a strong show of support. Ms. Emmons, who left her job and Wasilla a couple of years later, declined to comment for this article.
In 1996, Ms. Palin suggested to the local paper, The Frontiersman, that the conversations about banning books were “rhetorical.”
I had the book burning scene from Footloose on the brain when I read this topic. Isn't this the same author that had a post copied in another forum topic? Does this woman have a bone to pick or is she trying to highlight the life and time of the former Wasilla mayor.
Barbara - not sure where you are going with this?
Does this woman have a bone to pick?
Isn't this the same author that had a post copied in another forum topic?
I'm not sure what these mean, or if those questions are directed to me, but I'll be happy to answer them once I understand.
More rhetorical but this is the same person that a blog was posted on another forum topic here. Coincidence seems odd. That's all.
Did you really mean burnings or banning?
it was a joke. Obviously she's not burning books.
"the same person that a blog was posted on another forum topic here?"
If you're talking about the players involved in Wasilla, AK, yeah, I addressed that below. You never know what these people are up to.
To answer your other question, what are you getting at, it will probably make more sense to you when you realize that I'm a librarian.
So I wasn't far off from the Footloose connection huh. Bible thumpers burning books b/c their 'evil'.
What's next she didn't let the kids have a prom in the city limits?
gee - I am going to have to add tongue in cheek or sarcasm to every post?
guess I will just stop reading/posting to the blog until this obsession or nit picking over everything Palin has done is resolved.
Or you could just stop reading/posting on this blog until you're ready to actually take part in one of the discussions. Speaking of obsession, there are many other discussions going on on this blog, yet where are you posting Abe? You're posting here. Using alts too. People who are looking for honest discourse don't post using multiple accounts, spending all their time trying to paint people in the worst possible way, Abe.
What are you talking about?
Someone tries to bring a little levity into the situation and your start harping on them? Point out how people may view an action differently from you? Why do you assume the worst in people, meaning me and Palin?
Well I can promise you I won't back down from your brand of bullying. Do you beat your wife and family too?
You don't know me.
Levity? You whine about lack of intellectual discussion and look at your argument? It's the Bill O'Reilly brand of "intellectual" discussion... You ignore the subject matter, recast the people discussing it into a caricature, then subtlely mock the caricature and then you try to pretend like you're the only intelligent and reasonable one.
That's why I did exactly that back to you before Abe. Barbara was being very reasonable with you in the discussion in this thread, and look where you went with that? That's reasonable? That's a joke.
Barbara, if I'm crossing the line on the rules of the board with what I've said, please tell me and I'll refrain.
I am sure Barbara doesn't need you to be her attack dog.
Have you ever seen Footloose? I was MAKING A FREAKIN JOKE.
seriously, ben. Lay off Jill at least long enough for her to get her bearings. She's been a member a whopping 20 hours. She might even stick around if she can make a few poitns.
You and Abe can go at it all you want, though. Abe prolly likes it.
"When was the last time Abe logged in?"
I think the two of us took care of that a few days ago when we tag-teamed her about her "critical thinking skills" that she loves to throw around when she was pulling insignificant sections from a article for slate or politico regarding Palin.
I don't want to speak too soon...but it could be an "I'll be back" moment.
^^^^^^^
Golf11, NYC
Vero Possumus
". Do you beat your wife and family too?"
See Barbara, this is why I came down on Abe the first time. You can not reason with people like this. The only way to win, is to show them you're dominant. This person is playing a dominance game only.
I will not let you bullying me like you did Abe.
You are the once who said some people only respond to negativity.
If you can't take it then don't dish it out.
"not sure where you are going with this?"
Because if it's true, that could be an indicator of hostility and contempt for our constitutional right of free speech and press.
and wrongful termination.
Questioning the appropriateness for certain books does not equate to hostility and contempt of free speech.
I don't recall seeing porn in my local library (tongue in cheek)
That's your opinion that it doesn't, in my opinion it does. I've noticed it's the fearful who want books banned. The fearful don't belong in the whitehouse.
I've also noticed you seem an awful lot like abe, in both argument style and sentence construction.
Who's arguing? Just seems the tone of the entire board has dramatically shifted from thoughtful issues to post anything that makes Republicans look bad. Just tiresome. Again maybe should just stop reading until something else has passed.
Everyone here keeps talking about how low the Republican party has sunk and I agree but it seems that it doesn't stop the majority here of replicating this same style when it suits their needs.
I was just hoping we could steer the boat onto a more intellectual course.
"Just seems the tone of the entire board has dramatically shifted from thoughtful issues to post anything that makes Republicans look bad."
You are astroturfing, you're part of the wag the dog campaign going on right now. Notice how you ignore the other discussions Abe?
hey, Ben. If you're concerned somebody's got a dup account then let John or Suzi know.
Jill is not Abe, and while I appreciate your attempts to play trollbuster, Jill is actually trying to make some legitimate points, and she even has a sense of humor, too. And she done spells good, too. If only all our detractors were as insufferable as jill.
JILL-- "Just seems the tone of the entire board has dramatically shifted from thoughtful issues to post anything that makes Republicans look bad."
I think the GOP leadership has done a masterful job of that all by themselves!
Two quick things, then I suggest we turn back to discussing Obama, McCain, the presidential election, the future of our party, the future of the country, and such related topics.
#1 - Jill is not Abe.
#2 - It's pretty inevitable that much of what we say here will be attacks on the Republican party. While more sane members of our party have decided to become independent and move on with their lives, we here at RFO seem to think that our party can and should work to reform itself and work to make America an even greater nation. Think of our criticism of our party as tough love.
I'm not sure if there has been a shift over the past 24 hours, but I still think that we're one of the more intelligent, thoughtful and respectful boards out there. People who have tried to instigate petty conflicts in the past on here have been removed (although we prefer to keep this number to a minimum, of course.)
"Questioning the appropriateness for certain books does not equate to hostility and contempt of free speech."
That position does a 180 at warp speed depending upon which books are being deemed 'inappropriate' and who gets to decide if they are. Personally, I prefer choosing my own reading material without the meddling of people eager to impose their own moral views on me. That's free speech.
Truth be told, this would probably bother me more than any other factor that has been brought up so far, depending on what the facts are.
It's so hard to tell with so many rumors flying around...
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, & wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
Well, that's what's hard to know. I respect the NYT, but they can only be as accurate as their interviewees. And for all we know these could be people harboring old grudges against Palin.
Plus part of my reaction is that it almost seems like too many of these stories are just too bizarre to be true which made them seem more like smears to me.
But then, some of them seem to have enough fact to back them up that it just makes me shake my head.
I'll still wait and see for sure how much is true and how much is smear but... just wow.
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, & wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
Assemblies of God churches do often hold "vice burnings" - not just books but CD's and movies - anything the Assembly of God youth feels is holding them back from their relationship with God. It would not surprise me if Palin's AoG church held burnings too.
But I'm sure I don't have to remind everyone that Republi an legislators have made many attempts to ban books at libraries. "I don't look at it as censorship," says Alabam Republican State Representative Gerald Allen. "I look at it as protecting the hearts and souls and minds of our children."
I have also been informed that Palin has not been affiliated with the denomination in at least six years. Some claim she was never involved with the denomination.
And I dated a guy at one of those churches for a year, and I don't recall him ever burning any media of any kind. Of course I suppose they might do those kinds of things in secret. Like the Mormon squirrel sacrifices.
If Palin is claiming that she is not now nor ever has been an Assemblies member, it is simply another lie – check out page 8 of the official summer newsletter of the Assemblies of God of Alaska. Also, Church on the Rock which some claim as her ‘home church’ is what’s referred to as a neopente "Assemblies daughter." If Palin is trying to distance herself from her church life it is because many mainline Christians find the Assemblies theology too cult-like and radical, especially with their End-time Paradigm. Google “Joel’s Army”, “Ron Luce Battle Cry” to see some of the reasons why.
Many former members of the more radical Assemblies churches consider themselves "walk away survivors." In my interfaith work I encounter many who felt spiritually abused by their practices. Burning or symbolically burning (when community regulations don't permit) items of evil influence actually is a common component. Sure, other fundamentalist churches hold similar events. They cite Acts 19:19-20 to justify it. "Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together and burned them before all men and they counted the price of them and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed."
No you didn't state 'all' but by saying "Assemblies of God churches" it implies that.
Just pointing out that is not the case for all - at least not the ones I have ever attended. That's all.
This is a huge concern for me. I don't want any government entity deciding what is appropriate for my family and I to read or watch. Sure, there are a lot of things we do not allow in our home, be we need to make that choice, not some all knowing government. I mean, where does it end? If you start allowing some books to be banned, then it is easier the next time, and before you know it, you are indocrinated.
It's kind of like boiling a frog. If you drop him in a pot of boiling water, he will hop out because of the pain. But, put him in room temperature water and slowly turn up the heat, and before he knows it, he is cooked.
I'll end my rant now. :)
Well, I want to play a little bit of Devil's Advocate here, and maybe Barbara, who I believe said she was a librarian, can correct me:
Libraries, of course, use tax money and donations to purchase and maintain their collections. This money, like most money, is a limited resource. So books that are purchased or replaced are probably the ones that are of most use to the community. Yes?
Now, if the books were already in the collection? Well, then banning them would be right out. And that seems to be the case. But if the discussion between Palin and Emmons was about which books to add to or replace in the collection? Well, there might be some merit to the discussion there.
Then again, I would mostly trust the librarians or the library board (if they have such things) to make those decisions more than the mayor.
Just my 2c.
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, & wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
PC, the way it usually works with a public library is that there's some kind of informal dialogue between the library and the community. Often these kinds of deals come up over material that is selected to meet the needs of a minority population that is not very accepted by the community as a whole. In my community it's the books about GLBA families. It doesn't matter if 90% of your population disapproves of the material. If there's a subgroup that needs it then you include it.
In the case of Wasilla (or whatever it is), I imagine it was probably childrens' material. A ton of libraries threw out Harry Potter and Golden Compass and who knows what else because those books threatened to enchant children with the occult.
I just want to say -- libraries and librarians are awesome. They were like a lifeline for me when I was a kid.
We also used to have a "mail-a-book" service when I was a kid, which is a lot like Netflix or Gamefly, only free. Well, you had to pay postage I think.
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, & wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
That's great, Jay, but you still have to pay your overdue fines.
;-)
You know what's funny? I just returned an overdue book today.
To be sure -- it was my son's, not mine. But still. :-)
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, & wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel