You are hereForums / Miscellaneous Chit-Chat / woo hoo,,,,,lets get lazy and get a free car

woo hoo,,,,,lets get lazy and get a free car


wow no comments,,that cause we maybe have the same thoughts on this?? I hope to heck it is so.
I ordinarily hate to unload like this, but I'm in a bit of a foul mood...
  1. The cars are donated. The program is in another state. What is mystifying is that you're apparently ticked off that this program exists, even though its effects on your taxation are minimal at most, if not entirely nonexistent. And don't get started on "slippery slope" arguments, because I doubt that most states or localities will be able to make this work.
  2. Let's weigh the costs of stopping the program versus enforcing a return policy, versus letting them keep the cars. Stop the program entirely: more people out of work, economy slows, more people on welfare, MA budget even further in the red. Enforce returns: more red tape, more money spent hunting down the fraction of the 20% trying to get a free ride off the welfare system, probably more spent than the worth of the vehicles. Letting them keep the cars: the state loses the cars, but the recipients now have transportation.
  3. Silence is not agreement. I personally kept silent because I thought the "cars for welfare" = "lazy bums get free cars" argument is ridiculous. I would rather wonder if you can go to Boston and apply for the free car without attempting to find a job, and without getting nailed for defrauding the state.
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It's sad that we've reached a point where 'government service' is a dirty word... If we're the greatest country on earth, maybe we can have the greatest government.

Lewis Black

magus, have you been up all night or just an incredibly early riser?

OK, I will break the ice. Here are my general thoughts on this (perhaps more on the implication of the title of the thread than on the article itself): to imply that poor = lazy is not only demeaning to the poor, it is VERY inaccurate. It is a fact that the lowest paid workers are the ones who work the hardest, and do the most work.

If I am wrong, Blakey, that that was your implication, then I apologize.

 

  wcolin,,wheres the motivation to get off welfare when people who are on it are rewarded,,why the man out making $7.50 an hour slaving his but off still has to pay for his own and also pay for there car now too.  Good grief, yeahhe may be poor and will be even more having to support this BS.  Not talking about poor,,hell alot of people on welfare are living better off us than the guy out busting his tail for minimum wage,,but taht man has pride,,knows whats its like to work and that feeling in itself has value. Some expect things to be given, this government is teaching and promoting a lazy society.

Blakey, you are slanting the information.

The article clearly stated that they had to either have a job which they could not get to by public transportation (as a Los Angelian I find that situation entirely plausible), or could prove the need of the car to get the job, and send pay stubs to the state to show that they are employed to receive the benefit of the government paying the costs of insurance etc.

And yes, I got to the point that said 20% went back on welfare, but that means that this program kept 80% of the recipients off welfare.  The other 20% should have to return the cars. And yes it is frustrating to be doing all the right things and get no help, but does that really mean no one should help anyone? Or the truely poor and their children (the program required that recipients have children they are trying to support) should just be left to starve on the streets?

Personally I would wish for better public transportation as the solution,  but that is a much more expensive option.

Your generalizations about people on welfare are making me nauseous.

I will opt out of this discussion because it's clear we are not working from the same conceptual net.

  Honestly people can find a job without getting a free car,,many peope in this world have done it.  Maybe they can use some of their welfare money and at least use that to pay for public transportation. I'm not slanting anything it is what it is ...STUPID waste of money.

Tell me Blakey...what kind of public transportation is there where you live? 

Also, did you note that the cars are donated, and the public funds, in addition to what was already pointed out about jobs, etc....go for insurance, etc.?

Suzi, being a Marylander myself, if Blakey is in the allegheny county area I would suggest there's very little public transportation. That part of our state complains about the attention that the Baltimore/DC corridor gets. Never quite understood why though.

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Golf11, NYC
Vero Possumus
http://twitter.com/Golf11

Not being familiar with the area, I could only assume that in a rural area, one of the drawbacks is no public transportation.  In most areas of the country, once you get outside of the cities, such transportation is highly limited or non-existent. 

And "The City" is different all over the map.

In our "urban area," public transportation only hits main arteries. If there are jobs available off the main arteries or in suburban areas, well, you "just can't get there from here."

And if you live in the county section of the so-called Metro area, cab rides won't even help you!

(assuming you could get free cab coupons if lower income to get to work and/or medical facilities. Ain't gonna happen here.)

That's what I meant by "highly limited".  Thanks for explaining it so clearly.   Too many people can't connect the dots where life outside of their own little box is concerned.  They know what they live, and don't realize the challenges of life in different places....the good and the bad.

Actually, if you can ride a bike, Los Angeles isn't too bad.  Most of the buses have bike carriers and they are allowed on the trains.

What makes it hard here and in most modern cities is that everything is so  spread out.  If you need to make a transfer your commute can be a real hassle, if you have to make more than one you might as well forget it.

 Also there is a real aversion to walking.  Even though my husband is fond of public transportation he didn't start taking the bus until he had to start an exercise program.  

It's pretty rural Cuumberland is the largest city out there...


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Golf11, NYC
Vero Possumus
http://twitter.com/Golf11

And I would imagine that it is quite beautiful there too, but not condusive to public transportation or other solutions to the problems confronting lower incomes.

Great for skiing...VERY REPUBLICAN, it has its good and bad like every other place...but definitely an area where the tone of the McCain/Palin campaign has a lot of appeal.

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Golf11, NYC
Vero Possumus
http://twitter.com/Golf11

Oh.

"Real" Amurika.

Why didn't you just say so? ;-D

NOW you're on the right track.

 

I was being polite to my home state.

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Golf11, NYC
Vero Possumus
http://twitter.com/Golf11

 Well first off I am not in Cumberland or Allegany county and no one could pay me to live in that rat hole,,run down down thats needs a major over haul is more or less what it is.  But yes their is public transportation,,but using Allegany County there are forms of it there and yes anyone anytime can use it,,goodnesss my O me and in them thar hills they got that stuff as hard as it is to believe.  I can;t recall anyone out in western Md complaining about what Baltimore gets,,I for one could care less cause I have no plans to go there and could care less cause I wish no one from Baltimore would come here,but they do way too much,,easy enough though to see how they act and you can tell a toursit,,drive like morons,cut ya off , pull out in front of ya,,park in the road to look at a bird ad think they are out in the country and no one else exsist. And just pretty much rude. So I would have no desire to go there if they act as they do here.

I guess you'd have to be politically active in state politics. Perhaps that's why you don't recall the complaints.

I can also see how "tourists" could be bothersome coming to your little hamlet of heaven in that part of Maryland. I too have similar feelings when people from the hinterlands muster up bravery to visit the big bad cities and they stop in the middle of busy sidewalks to look at 8x10 foot maps spread amongst the kin folk or use the subway without enough money on their cards and when it's spit out they stand in the turnstile looking at the card with this "gee willickers why did that happen" look in the middle of rush hour. Or the really fat lazy ones that actually RIDE the escalator or stand in the middle so people can't move around them.

Inconvenience is terrible, isn't it; but despite all of that we city folk always stop to help. See how generalizing can be bad?

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Golf11, NYC
Vero Possumus
http://twitter.com/Golf11

  well you gave examples of city folk also there. LOL,,not sure you can tell the difference then cause it sounds like it may be the same people,,must do it at both spots.   I never have a problem using the subway here,,I know when I go in a foot long is $5.   

  Inconvenince is terrible isn;t it

 Have everything I want here,,no inconveniance here at all. Sucks walking through a busy spot and no place to take a leak,,now that is inconveniant  *_*

But city folk stop to help,,LOL,theres a good one

Blakey: How does someone use public transportation if it doesn't exist for them? Just wondering...

 

I brought up public transportation up only cause sixteentoons used that as an example and therefore I implied that that would be better than giving them free cars,,let em use there own welfare money for that,,I could give a damn less how they get there,,but it doesn;t need to be  more of  a cost to me.
  Walk, ride with a friend, work doing something where ya are. Barter for a ride,,use what ya got, there are sources to get from point A to point B without making the public pay for it. Been happening a long long time.

Wow.

. . .just. . .wow.

I'm guessing "bootsraps" will be hauled out before too long. . . 

"Oh-ho-ho, we want to get to work with a donated car, do we? Feelin' all high-and-mighty, eh? A bicycle not good enough for you, eh?"

I'm sorry, but Pythonesque thinking in real life just isn't funny, Blakey.

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It's sad that we've reached a point where 'government service' is a dirty word... If we're the greatest country on earth, maybe we can have the greatest government.

Lewis Black

As I understand welfare money is dispersed to your landlord and your utility money. You get food stamps for food, no money for extras. I know someone who was on it and worked 1 night a week for extra money, she brought home about 35 dollars, welfare was going to cut her rent in half because of that!! 

There's a huge cache of urban legend out there about all the people getting "rich" off welfare, or living the good life, in some way.

Reality is entirely different. But the old myths, still recycled, are  hard to break.

The abuses that can and do occur are trotted out as Standard Operating Procedure.

It's part of the reason many many many people who are eligilble for certain programs and safeguards don't avail themselves of them. They don't want to be seen as a slacker, lazy, greedy, parasite -- and those are just the nice things they could be called!

It's tragic the number of children (and older adults) living in poverty, doing without needed medical care, and under- or mal-nourished because of the stigma associated with seeking assistance.

 

Blakey...just some food for thought for you.  I know you are single, and live in a rural area, which is nice.  But that combination leads me to believe that you may live with your parents (or other family members)...nothing wrong with that either, as I love the family unit dynamic.  But, if my assumptions are correct, you are not faced with the same situation as some are when they become unemployed or make a low wage.  They are saddled with the full burden of supporting themselves and often a family.  Giving them a hand up in order to become more productive is better for all of us, in the long run. 

Yeha Suzi,,will say you are right on some accounts there. Therefor I growed up realizing if you pull your own weught others don;t have to.  This is developing into an exytremely lazy society and will only get worse. People rely on others to take care of them. It becomes like ,,this is nice,,its the life, where is the motivation for them to want work when they are giving handouts. Yeah growing up sometimes you didn;t get you make do and even make build it yourself. Its all on personality, I no many people who have could of used the welfare system and maybe were deprived of a few things,,but they made do and worked with what they could cause they have pride about themselves, not saying everyone on welfare does not,,alot of single mothers I am sure have no choice and frankly I don;t have a problem with them using it. Its the advantage taking by yes "LAZY" people who have no pride and thats fact  cause if ya did you would work,,but work is to hard and its easier to get your handout.  Yeah sometimes people can take a step back and live with their parents ,,no its not a big deal, I haven;t a problem admitting I have done so before,,but you know what,,never ever relied on anyone has to take care of me,,taught from when I could walk you earn your way,,its not given,,but today its like people expect it to be cause they are facing a hard to,,boo hoo,,lets have the government tell us lets give these people more...

Blakey,

Could you do me a favor, and get on the web and find out how many people on welfare are there because they are LAZY.

Could you give us some real numbers, and how you are determining that the people are lazy, as opposed to clinically depressed (and check what clinically depressed is, it may not be what you think it means), or drug addicted or facing problems you've not faced.

 So now I am suppose to pay fo everyone who has had a drug addiction,,I am to suffer more of my pay cause of them ,,wow.  Sad fact that many are on welfar ecause they are lazy,,me and Suzi have een round onb this topic before and even she agreed with me many take advantage of it.. It happens and its like a disease,,look at him,,he donlt work,,maybe I can do the same and it spreads like a cancer till its uncontrolable. I can agree there are people who need it. Alot of them do not,,but its easier,,thats what society we live in now,,its easier let the other people pay for it.

And I guess your parents funded all of your schooling both primary and secondary? No help from anyone else?

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Golf11, NYC
Vero Possumus
http://twitter.com/Golf11

 Yeah Golf,,no help,,I got a working mans PHD by the hard work.

Yeah, but property tax funded whatever education you do have. That's "welfare." Ask someone without children and who owns property who pays local school taxes but doesn't have kids in the system that they support.

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Golf11, NYC
Vero Possumus
http://twitter.com/Golf11

 I would assume most would be fine with it,,they are kids learning to grow up to be something.

What I agreed with was that there are some who take advantage of the system, not many as you suggest.  I doubt if anyone will dispute that. 

Many minorities have gotten locked into a cycle of poverty, especially here in the south, where it goes back many generations.  People have become defeated, and don't see a way out. Believe me, welfare is far below the poverty level, and I don't think there are many who choose to stay there because it is "easy".

And back to how lazy people on welfare are.

 The article was about helping people by providing a resource (car) they needed (one of the requirements was no access to public transportation) so that they could get a job and off welfare. They were not viable recipients without a job prospect and they were required to prove continued employment.

What part of this is rewarding laziness?

 Did you even read the article or did you just decided it was a good starting point to rant about the evils of welfare?

 

 What part of this rewards laziness.....Uh Joe Shmoe out there earning $6 an hour driving an old clunker working his ass off and paying his insurance and barely has enough money for anything else,,but he takes care of himself..but if he said the heck with his work and got "lazy" he could go on welfare and get a good ride.
That "good ride"  will be donated by someone with a good heart....probably an old clunker that they no longer drive.  The recipient will have to have or show proof of getting a job in order to qualify.  Where does laziness come into that picture?  Would you prefer that they stay with no job, or quit, and be on the welfare rolls?
I gotta be totally honest here.  This is going to be hard to say without sounding rude, but here goes.  I don't know what you do for a living, but I am having a hard time believing that you make all that much money that the government is taking so much of it to give to poor people.
I have no idea whether Blakey has gone back to work, but he posted here a while back that he had been laid off. 

Good point CTM; pretty amazing how points of view don't always come from real life or personal experience. What's the adage, walk a mile is someone's shoes...?

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Golf11, NYC
Vero Possumus
http://twitter.com/Golf11

I think in this case, Blakey's view is limited to and by his real life and personal experiences.  His view seems to be shaped by and limited to his way of life in his area.  Nothing wrong with that, it's where we all start out.  But at some point, we have to realize that there is a huge world out there, and in it are a lot of problems that we don't see as a part of our daily lives.   When we can begin to do that, is when we begin to learn the meaning of that adage.  It's hard to walk a mile in shoes that you don't believe exist.

  I realize there is a big world out there and what the necessary things are that make it go round. Name them for me,label everything in that city, tell me how it got to be ,,tell me how it still is,,tell me,, maybe I am missing something. What does the city do for me,,what does the country do for the city,,this is a battle here where I will come out on top no matter what any of you come up with.  So you might as well give it up. But I will continue forever on this if we all wish.

Blakey, sweetie,,,this is not a contest between the city mouse and the country mouse.   Both are equally valuable lifestyles.  My point was, we have to broaden the way we look at the problems of those who live in a differt kind of environment than we do individually, and try to understand the particular challenges they may face, that we don't have to. 

Anyway, if everyone left the cities for the country life, your way of life would disappear.  And just for the record, I am a small town/smallish city girl, I guess.  The people from big cities think I'm a country girl, and the people from the country think I'm a city slicker.  AND if it were an option for me at this stage of my life, I would be in a small town again.  Mayberry RFD would be just fine with me.  I loved small town life, would love to have it again,  but I didn't let that blind me to what goes on elsewhere in my country.

Blakey, there are a number of issues: 1.)it seems that life for you is about labels; 2.) realizing something exists is not the same as experiencing and understanding it logically. The Sun is hot (realization) but its a hot that one has never fully experienced, as such you would be hard-pressed to make an accurate or winning argument about "heat" as YOU know it when compared to something you've never experienced.

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Golf11, NYC
Vero Possumus
http://twitter.com/Golf11

 Golf you haven;t walked a mile in my shoes either..maybe if ya did you would understand where I am coming from better. Granted yeah its all our own assumptions of our opinions.  I am aware there are wonderful wonderful people from the city. Not trying to say there is not. Funny all these jobs in urban areas with many businesses and areas with high welfare rates,,I donlt know , guess I jumped to conclusions

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